Tuesday, April 24, 2012
Keep on the Borderlands Question
Here's a question for you KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS Fanatics. I'm contemplating taking on the great task of making a scale model of the keep ( if anyone has looked at my Blog you know I have started making lots and lots of dungeon sets from Hirst Arts). The whole model will be in sections to have access into various areas of the keep and will be about 4ft by 6ft in dimension ( I'm not sure about height since I haven't factored in if I want to build the rock plateau its built upon or not). I googled the keep and it seems no one has taken on this task so Id like to be the first. I think it would take me maybe a year to build it in my workshop in my off time. I want to add as many of the elements listed in B2 as possible.
So here is my dilemma from a planing and building perspective. The plans of the keep show the back northern towers - The Great Towers ( labeled 23 on the map) to be round towers and the eastern Guard Tower ( labeled 20 on the map) to be partial hexagon. BUT- the artist picture on the back shows the Great Towers and the Guard Tower to be square. SO.... Do I design the Keep with the plans given in the module or go by the iconic artwork provided on the back of the module. I know this may be a minor discrepancy but as a builder myself, these things bug me.
So what are peoples feelings about which they feel I should use as my basis for my model?
Sunday, April 22, 2012
More Feedback From Players
Im posting this as a way to record my players feedback on the issues I presented earlier. This is a list of feedback Ive gotten from them and what my replies have been thus far. Im NOT doing this in any way to discourage feedback as much as a means to see what others feel about their feed back, if other DMs have gotten similar feedback and how they handled similar situations, and maybe to help other DMs who have similar player discrepancies.
Thanks for the feedback so far. I will continue to consider what you all have said until we next play so I can alter things that need to be altered. Please keep in mind a few things about the gaming sessions-
1) Its Old School- so it will have very olds school flavor and mechanics weather they makes sense or not,
2)We are trying something new here. Many of us have not played together in a long time and some not at all. None of us have played on line before and this is my first time running an online game. I applaud Madeleine for setting up Skype and making that system work for us- I don’t have the patience for it- but it is quirky and slows things down at times (cameras issues, microphone issues, multiple people talking can mute out what a person says, etc). Also I am managing a lot here: The adventure, the model set ups, the character movement, the rules, the notes, and each player. Its hard enough to do when people are sitting around a table, its another when its all online and your trying to direct information- so please be patient if I don’t hear you tell me you cast a spell or did something.
3) Lets not take this too seriously and have fun with it. It shouldn’t be personally frustrating experience for anyone. I do this because I love gaming and I want to play with my friends and I enjoy bringing those to dynamics together.
So- here are responses to feedback so far:
1) Regarding initiative, I am sort of a convert to individual initiative. I think this gives a better feel of the "chaos of combat." I would suggest rolling a d6 or d8 and having characters add their DX bonus, and perhaps have penalties for heavy armor or huge weapons. Then just count down from 8 or 10 to one, with each character reacting on their number. Monsters could be rolled as a group if there are lots of them, or individually if there are just a few.
I think the bigger issue with initiative is how spells are handled. In my systems, I long ago moved away from the "spoil the spell" rule, so spell casters don't have to declare spells at the beginning of the round. I find this makes things flow far better. If you retain the spell declaration, there really has to be a call for spells at some point when the initiative die is rolled. I think with individual initiative, spell casters would be prompted better to declare their spell because it would be a more active process. Also, spells could have an initiative modifier (perhaps even different modifiers for different spells), which would impact the roll and force the caster to call the spell to get the correct modifier.
So either way, I think individual initiative is a better solution and would actually make play more interactive, interesting, and fun.
MY RESPONSE:
I don’t want to bog the game down with lots of initiative modifiers ( spells, armor, weapon speed, etc) these are primarily AD&D mechanics. I want to keep initiative simple. My issue with having everyone roll and then count down is that I never liked that all my monsters got to go on the same initiative roll and I its too much work to keep initiative for a bunch of monsters individually. I agree with Bill that it would be easier for spellcasters to remember to call out spell use- and I am getting better at remembering to ask prior to die roll. But again, part of old school is stating intention first and dealing when casting a spell ( actually, how it was handled was that before initiative was rolled, everyone stated their intended action first- then we rolled and everyone was stuck with their action no matter what the outcome. So if you decided to fire an arrow at a goblin and the goblins won initiative and that goblin hides behind something- too bad- that was your action. If you want to reopen this style of initiative im ok with that too).
I think the main issue here is more that I just wrote your characters down in absolutely no order and its easier for me to go down the list one by one. But this means characters at the bottom always go last even if the party wins initiative. SO…. I guess im still pondering this mechanic.
2) Some other thoughts...
>It did take a bit to get things off the ground again with hirelings and such...
>Unfortunately it cost nearly all your hirelings
Yes it did. I think there are a couple of issues around this that should be considered.
First, on a bigger picture, I think there is a lot of "resource micro-management" going on which is taking up a lot of time, in my opinion somewhat needlessly. This is compounded horribly when you factor in all these groupies, who each need to be micro managed to the nth degree. Tom, I would suggest that you develop a "standard pack" for porters, and one perhaps for fighting hirelings, and the assign a basic cost for the upkeep of said pack when we get back to town. The same can be done for the characters. It will just save a lot of time and hassle, especially since we seem to need to replace the hirelings after virtually every adventure.
MY RESPONSE:
Much of this has to do with players. You guys choose to take on hirelings and such and often change things when we start or want to buy more stuff or whatever., I have no problem with that, I just want a list of who has what. Since I don’t have you sitting here, I have to keep a record this for certain reasons. I don’t think its too much to ask. If a porter is carrying all your torches and he runs off into the dark- well then you have no torches. When the cleric tells me he is using his holy water ( and I remember he used it already in the last encounter) it tells me some people aren’t managing their equipment accurately and its an unfair advantage for everyone. Part of old school is Resource Management because so much of the characters survival at early levels depends on this. Im not being a total nazi about this, I just want to know who has what in general.
I don’t want to put together a FAST PACK for hirelings since I don’t know what you want them to have. So if someone wants to put together a Hireling Fast Pack based on the Equipment list and say “This is the Fastpack we will purchase for each Hireling and always maintain that” Im ok with that.
3) This brings me to my second point, which is the lethality of combat and the relative power of our characters. Were I Orien (which in a sense I am), I would be thinking to myself, "what the hell am I doing wrong?" In the last two adventures we have come a hair's breath from being wiped out. And so far we have yet to penetrate barely beyond the entrance to the Caves of Chaos, and didn't even find a burial mound in the Barrows. I could see having a big climactic battle that really tests us when we have actually gotten somewhere. But being essentially wiped out at the doorstep of these two places has Orien (me) thinking that these places are way above our heads, and that we need to find somewhere that is more appropriate.
MY RESPONSE:
Well we are playing Old School and I know a lot of you are either out of practice or havnt played before. Part of old school is picking away at encounters a little at a time, running a lot, fleeing back to town to rest up, arming yourselves with hirelings, etc. Especially at low levels this is how things go. You don’t get much EXP from killing monsters, it all mostly comes from treasure. Wandering monsters suck because they never have any. Time Management is just as important in Old School as Resource Management. Its just a different style of play and sets of rules. If you want to stand around for an hour in a undead haunted bog without setting up proper defences while you let one porter dig out two graves all by himself- that’s your choice. BUT- I roll for an encounter every few turns or so- more if you making noise. The trick is to figure out how to get past the monsters and get the treasure without much bloodshed (you guys h andled this nicely with sleep spells in the Caves).
Also, you may have had your asses handed to you the last two encounters, But, you managed to wipe o ut nearly every first encounter you faced for few sessions with Sleep spell. You also took out a significant Bandit operation that could have been problematic for your group. You win sometimes, you loose sometimes. It all depends on actions you make and the roll of the die.
Again-YOUR FIRST LEVEL- its not suppose to be easy. But I think your doing a pretty good job so far since NOT ONE character has died to date. That’s pretty fair.
If Adventureing wasn’t dangerous, more people would be doing it and all those tombs and caves filled with loot would be empty <G>.
4) I feel like we tried to gather information in Barrowmoor. Perhaps if the place was too powerful some kind Cleric maybe could have given us a clue and pointed us elsewhere. But I have to say it is pretty discouraging to watch half your party get destroyed every adventure - especially when it is in such seemingly benign encounters like a few giant toads.
MY RESPONSE:
The Barrowmoor is a dangerous place and everyone told you that including the priest in the village. You were told there were undead and other nasty creatures. The Priest has priestly duties to perform, he isn’t interested in endangering his life by trapsing around some fetid bog to get information about whats going on. That’s your job….
5) Yes, the party members themselves have survived by the skin of their teeth, but Orien looks around and realizes he has exactly one hit point more than most of the porters, and thinks, "there but for the grace of Hearn go I." It seems to me that characters who are level 1 should have their zero level hit points to make them relatively more powerful than the porters. If Bryrig had ever advanced, for example, he would have gotten a second d4 or d6 of hit points for now being level one. I think giving the characters that would make us a bit more resilient and also differentiate the characters a bit better from their hirelings.
MY RESPONSE:
No- Bryrig if he gained a level would not get another die of hit points. He would get to re roll ( or take the max if he were a PC) of the class he starts in ( for the record hes a porter so he can never advance, only a fighting man can). What separates you from them is you can level, you have more abilities, your better at fighting than they are, and well as crewl as it may sound- You matter and they don’t. Their not called Cannon Fodder for nothing. That’s not to say you cannot develop relationships with your hirelings or whatever, but don’t say the adventure is too hard because you brought 5 torchbearers to a Monster Mash and they got killed . You guys didn’t loose any party members.
6) But bigger picture, Orien feels that the two places we have been have proven to be beyond our current abilities, and would look elsewhere for a next adventure. It just isn't a whole lot of fun to put all this time into making this party then having us get wiped out without penetrating at all into the more interesting parts of the places we are supposed to be exploring, and not really pushing the story forward in any meaningful way.
MY RESPONSE:
There is no overarching story here. It’s a sandbox setting where there are adventures to explore together. You can clean out the Caves of Chaos, kill undead in the Barrowmaze, etc. I like that most of you have provided a backstory that tells me why you are here and gives me something to create side stories each of you personally, but those wont come to light right away. For now you are trying to get some experience, prove your worth, establish connections with NPCs, etc.
7) So in synopsis, I'd like to find ways we can focus less, and spend far less time, on the mundane aspects of the system like buying food and lighting torches, and put more time into developing our characters interaction with the world. Charge us a little money and just consider it done. Our characters have lived in the world, they know they need to buy food, they know where to get it - that part doesn't need to be played out as rigorously. Stuff like Madeleine's spells or buying a special weapon is different, and I thought that was handled well, but not the mundane stuff. And secondly, I think there needs to be a better "flow" of combat. If every encounter sends us fleeing back to town, we'll never get anywhere. So if we are doing something wrong in not being diligent about vetting the places we are going, we need to change that. But if not, I think the encounters we have need to be crafted better around the story. The battle we had yesterday, for example, would have made more sense to me if it happened at a Burial Mound, rather than as the result of encountering some toads.
MY RESPONSE:
I agree with better flow of combat and I addressed that above. But fleeing back to town after a few combats is standard. I wouldn’t suggest camping out in the Barrowmoors anymore than I would suggest camping out in the Caves of Chaos- They are not safe. There is a reason the town is not very far away- its to rest, recouperate and replenish supplies and henchmen.
Again, the battles yesterday were random encounters. Two brought on by your actions ( hanging out for an hour and digging graves, shouting out to your friends so you they could find you).
Also, we only play for about 4 hrs when you factor in computer connection issues, players having to go off to take care of personal things, etc. In that time I try to get in a fair amount of both roll playing and combat in. Its not always balanced, sometimes its heavy on the role play, other times its heavy on the encounters.
8) Taking turns for actions - I think the player characters (not Tom) should name a caller to ask each character what they are doing, and that the caller should keep track of action order - I personally vote to use round-robbin - fair, fun and simple.
MY RESPONSE:
Im not sure what Adam means by this, I think everyone is telling me what their characters are doing, but if you guys opt to assign a caller to speak for all your actions Im open to that
9)Porters etc. Cadfael will never take more than one from now on. It gets cumbersome and expensive!
MY RESPONSE:
LOL yes especially when the run off into the dense fog of a the undead infested Barrowwmoor..
10) Oil - good idea about pre-made molotov cocktails. We could keep a couple in belt/sholder harness/vest harnes, and draw, light and throw and still have a movement (half-move or 5'?) action also allowed in that round. Question: is there such a thing as a smoldering taper - like a punk or cigarette etc, rather than using a torch to light the oil? Like a "match" people used to light cannon fuses.
MY RESPONSE:
No there isn’t a way to keep a constantly list item other than a torch really. But prepairing Molotov cocktails is always an option. Also note torches last for two hours each, so even having on lit and on hand when going into dangerous areas is worth it so you can easily light other torches or oil ( since trying to get one lit with flint and steel isn’t easy, especially when zombies are chasing you)
11) Last - not sure what to do about it, but only having 7 HP's is a real pain and naturally produces a more cautions approach (run away!!!). Two desent hits from anything at all and we will be burrying, or cremating if it is the elf :), someone. Here are two very simple solutions: (a) give us more HP's! (b) somehow make it that we have access to cheap CLW potions (at the moment they are very expensive).
MY RESPONSE:
As Ive said before, I think Im more than fair on what I offer for healing ( well beyond the B/X rules). Clerics can swap out healing for free, you can bandage for 1d3 hit points after battle, you can heal back in town for 1d6 hit points, If you fall below zero and make a save vs Death you don’t die, you can pay a cleric back in town to heal you, you can buy healing salves that cure 1d3 hit points.
Yes having 7 hit points sucks. Having better armor, a shield and helmet certainly helps, as does hiring men at arms to surround you and keep you safe.
12) I also agree with people about initiative. I don't think that round robin really reflects the characters though. It should be a rare day, indeed, that Golar goes before Orien, so I think that some way of doing initiative that reflects a character's skills is best if it can be simple enough to run. Perhaps an initiative roll modified by dex as Bill suggests makes sense. Perhaps we only roll initiative once per battle rather than once per round? I also really like the idea of one of the players calling the turns out rather than Tom. Its one less thing for him to have to manage during a busy combat.
Im ok with switching to someone rolling Initiative once then staying with that order. This may be easier but it removes the option of the party ( and the monsters as well) from getting two back to back actions. But in this case, individual initiative based on dex wouldn’t apply.
MY RESPONSE:
Im ok with someone else counting out initiative.
13) I don't mind spell declaration at the top of the round but if we do that, then whoever is calling the turns should call for spells by character, I.e. "Top of the round. Myra: spells [i speak], Cadfael: spells [Adam speaks]", etc. That said, not having spell declaration or spell spoilage is advantageous to the party so if we feel we are too weak, then this would be a small change that would help the cause.
MY RESPONSE:
Agreed- If someone wants to handle this fine by me- makes it easier for me believe me.
14) I also agree with people that our apparent weakness vs. the various tasks and quests is somewhat discouraging. We were completely unprepared for Barrowmoor. Our spells were ineffective, our night vision was ineffective, our weapons were ineffective, and even Cadfaels turn undead which should have been a powerful skill was largely ineffective. I felt like we asked the right people the right questions around town and not one of them clued us in to any of this. I can see us deserving to get our asses handed to us if we got some of that advice and went in there with no thought to strategy than "Let's get them!" I.e. if you go around stupidly and stubbornly, you deserve to get beat up, but if you're cautious and put some reasonable thought into what you're about to do, you should be able to avoid some consequences.
MY RESPONSE:
You knew you were going to be going into a place with undead. Why Cadfaels turn undead wasnt effective is a mystery ( or could be he just rolled low every time- remember he gets -1 cumulative on each turn). Your adventurers – adventurers are crazy. Normal people don’t risk their lives in tombs and caves. You often learn by trial and error. Well now you know better. Another note I want to mention about Cadfael's turning ability. Remember he is only 1st level. When you encounter an undead that keeps getting up every time you "kill" it, doesnt seem affected by your weapons and who exudes some kind of fear ability that causes half your group to flee in terror- It likely these undead arent your common everyday household zombies and therefore beyond his ability to turn. That doesnt mean they are too powerrul, it means you resort to other methods of dealing with them ( holy water), or better yet RUN!!!!!. Again- Trial and Error- if and when you encounter them again, youll no better....
15) One other suggestion is that we have a set marching order that we fax or email to Tom before we play. I think one order for in dungeons going 2 abreast and one for the wilderness when we can be more spread out. Tom can make the call as to whether we're in an area spacious enough for the spread out formation or not and set up our figures accordingly if we run into a battle.
MY RESPONSE:
Works for me as long as I have all the hireling info ahead of time so I can set things up. Also who will be carrying light.
16) Myra suggests we don't use porters or men-at-arms any more. Using porters is not much different from human sacrifice, and perhaps more important (in her mind anyway) is they're a bad investment. If we want more power, we should get people like Thad who have hit points and skills. If we want to be able to carry lots of stuff, we should get mules. For 30gp one mule can carry 200lbs of stuff, or double that with a movement penalty. If the mule gets killed we don't need to worry about next of kin, etc. and it's body can be left to Hearn's realm. (What did you call it, Brother Cafael? The wheel of life?) And if we need torches to be carried, we can carry them ourselves. OK, maybe one or two porters for the whole party at most (they can take care of the mules, too).
MY RESPONSE
A very sound alternative…
17) Regarding the Barrowmoors, Myra feels we are uniquely unsuited to be successful there. All of our best strengths and skills are virtually useless there. We could come up with an elaborate strategy involving a lot of oil, at-the-ready molotov cocktails, haul in our own firewood, and somehow procure several gallons of holy water, but that is a very expensive venture. She recommends that a different quest would be a smarter investment of our funds right now. The three that come to mind are the other quest that the wizard gave her, the Abandoned Mine with Mikko's help, or the Citadel of the Iron God with Ironfist's support.
MY RESPONSE:
That’s fine, I just need notice so I can prepare for the next adventure. I also have some town based adventures I can run if people want so me of that. The reason you did well up to this point is because the factors of the Caves and encounters to and from were easily manageable ( sleep, visibility, etc). The Barrowmoors represent a different set of obstacles to overcome- but they are tombs- so the chance for bigger treasure is more likely than what goblins will be carrying around. Your choice. But…If you don’t like dealing with undead, you have already been warned that undead were sighted at the Citadel of the Iron God. Undead are nasty aren’t they- no morale and they just keep getting up after you kill them.
Thanks for the feedback so far. I will continue to consider what you all have said until we next play so I can alter things that need to be altered. Please keep in mind a few things about the gaming sessions-
1) Its Old School- so it will have very olds school flavor and mechanics weather they makes sense or not,
2)We are trying something new here. Many of us have not played together in a long time and some not at all. None of us have played on line before and this is my first time running an online game. I applaud Madeleine for setting up Skype and making that system work for us- I don’t have the patience for it- but it is quirky and slows things down at times (cameras issues, microphone issues, multiple people talking can mute out what a person says, etc). Also I am managing a lot here: The adventure, the model set ups, the character movement, the rules, the notes, and each player. Its hard enough to do when people are sitting around a table, its another when its all online and your trying to direct information- so please be patient if I don’t hear you tell me you cast a spell or did something.
3) Lets not take this too seriously and have fun with it. It shouldn’t be personally frustrating experience for anyone. I do this because I love gaming and I want to play with my friends and I enjoy bringing those to dynamics together.
So- here are responses to feedback so far:
1) Regarding initiative, I am sort of a convert to individual initiative. I think this gives a better feel of the "chaos of combat." I would suggest rolling a d6 or d8 and having characters add their DX bonus, and perhaps have penalties for heavy armor or huge weapons. Then just count down from 8 or 10 to one, with each character reacting on their number. Monsters could be rolled as a group if there are lots of them, or individually if there are just a few.
I think the bigger issue with initiative is how spells are handled. In my systems, I long ago moved away from the "spoil the spell" rule, so spell casters don't have to declare spells at the beginning of the round. I find this makes things flow far better. If you retain the spell declaration, there really has to be a call for spells at some point when the initiative die is rolled. I think with individual initiative, spell casters would be prompted better to declare their spell because it would be a more active process. Also, spells could have an initiative modifier (perhaps even different modifiers for different spells), which would impact the roll and force the caster to call the spell to get the correct modifier.
So either way, I think individual initiative is a better solution and would actually make play more interactive, interesting, and fun.
MY RESPONSE:
I don’t want to bog the game down with lots of initiative modifiers ( spells, armor, weapon speed, etc) these are primarily AD&D mechanics. I want to keep initiative simple. My issue with having everyone roll and then count down is that I never liked that all my monsters got to go on the same initiative roll and I its too much work to keep initiative for a bunch of monsters individually. I agree with Bill that it would be easier for spellcasters to remember to call out spell use- and I am getting better at remembering to ask prior to die roll. But again, part of old school is stating intention first and dealing when casting a spell ( actually, how it was handled was that before initiative was rolled, everyone stated their intended action first- then we rolled and everyone was stuck with their action no matter what the outcome. So if you decided to fire an arrow at a goblin and the goblins won initiative and that goblin hides behind something- too bad- that was your action. If you want to reopen this style of initiative im ok with that too).
I think the main issue here is more that I just wrote your characters down in absolutely no order and its easier for me to go down the list one by one. But this means characters at the bottom always go last even if the party wins initiative. SO…. I guess im still pondering this mechanic.
2) Some other thoughts...
>It did take a bit to get things off the ground again with hirelings and such...
>Unfortunately it cost nearly all your hirelings
Yes it did. I think there are a couple of issues around this that should be considered.
First, on a bigger picture, I think there is a lot of "resource micro-management" going on which is taking up a lot of time, in my opinion somewhat needlessly. This is compounded horribly when you factor in all these groupies, who each need to be micro managed to the nth degree. Tom, I would suggest that you develop a "standard pack" for porters, and one perhaps for fighting hirelings, and the assign a basic cost for the upkeep of said pack when we get back to town. The same can be done for the characters. It will just save a lot of time and hassle, especially since we seem to need to replace the hirelings after virtually every adventure.
MY RESPONSE:
Much of this has to do with players. You guys choose to take on hirelings and such and often change things when we start or want to buy more stuff or whatever., I have no problem with that, I just want a list of who has what. Since I don’t have you sitting here, I have to keep a record this for certain reasons. I don’t think its too much to ask. If a porter is carrying all your torches and he runs off into the dark- well then you have no torches. When the cleric tells me he is using his holy water ( and I remember he used it already in the last encounter) it tells me some people aren’t managing their equipment accurately and its an unfair advantage for everyone. Part of old school is Resource Management because so much of the characters survival at early levels depends on this. Im not being a total nazi about this, I just want to know who has what in general.
I don’t want to put together a FAST PACK for hirelings since I don’t know what you want them to have. So if someone wants to put together a Hireling Fast Pack based on the Equipment list and say “This is the Fastpack we will purchase for each Hireling and always maintain that” Im ok with that.
3) This brings me to my second point, which is the lethality of combat and the relative power of our characters. Were I Orien (which in a sense I am), I would be thinking to myself, "what the hell am I doing wrong?" In the last two adventures we have come a hair's breath from being wiped out. And so far we have yet to penetrate barely beyond the entrance to the Caves of Chaos, and didn't even find a burial mound in the Barrows. I could see having a big climactic battle that really tests us when we have actually gotten somewhere. But being essentially wiped out at the doorstep of these two places has Orien (me) thinking that these places are way above our heads, and that we need to find somewhere that is more appropriate.
MY RESPONSE:
Well we are playing Old School and I know a lot of you are either out of practice or havnt played before. Part of old school is picking away at encounters a little at a time, running a lot, fleeing back to town to rest up, arming yourselves with hirelings, etc. Especially at low levels this is how things go. You don’t get much EXP from killing monsters, it all mostly comes from treasure. Wandering monsters suck because they never have any. Time Management is just as important in Old School as Resource Management. Its just a different style of play and sets of rules. If you want to stand around for an hour in a undead haunted bog without setting up proper defences while you let one porter dig out two graves all by himself- that’s your choice. BUT- I roll for an encounter every few turns or so- more if you making noise. The trick is to figure out how to get past the monsters and get the treasure without much bloodshed (you guys h andled this nicely with sleep spells in the Caves).
Also, you may have had your asses handed to you the last two encounters, But, you managed to wipe o ut nearly every first encounter you faced for few sessions with Sleep spell. You also took out a significant Bandit operation that could have been problematic for your group. You win sometimes, you loose sometimes. It all depends on actions you make and the roll of the die.
Again-YOUR FIRST LEVEL- its not suppose to be easy. But I think your doing a pretty good job so far since NOT ONE character has died to date. That’s pretty fair.
If Adventureing wasn’t dangerous, more people would be doing it and all those tombs and caves filled with loot would be empty <G>.
4) I feel like we tried to gather information in Barrowmoor. Perhaps if the place was too powerful some kind Cleric maybe could have given us a clue and pointed us elsewhere. But I have to say it is pretty discouraging to watch half your party get destroyed every adventure - especially when it is in such seemingly benign encounters like a few giant toads.
MY RESPONSE:
The Barrowmoor is a dangerous place and everyone told you that including the priest in the village. You were told there were undead and other nasty creatures. The Priest has priestly duties to perform, he isn’t interested in endangering his life by trapsing around some fetid bog to get information about whats going on. That’s your job….
5) Yes, the party members themselves have survived by the skin of their teeth, but Orien looks around and realizes he has exactly one hit point more than most of the porters, and thinks, "there but for the grace of Hearn go I." It seems to me that characters who are level 1 should have their zero level hit points to make them relatively more powerful than the porters. If Bryrig had ever advanced, for example, he would have gotten a second d4 or d6 of hit points for now being level one. I think giving the characters that would make us a bit more resilient and also differentiate the characters a bit better from their hirelings.
MY RESPONSE:
No- Bryrig if he gained a level would not get another die of hit points. He would get to re roll ( or take the max if he were a PC) of the class he starts in ( for the record hes a porter so he can never advance, only a fighting man can). What separates you from them is you can level, you have more abilities, your better at fighting than they are, and well as crewl as it may sound- You matter and they don’t. Their not called Cannon Fodder for nothing. That’s not to say you cannot develop relationships with your hirelings or whatever, but don’t say the adventure is too hard because you brought 5 torchbearers to a Monster Mash and they got killed . You guys didn’t loose any party members.
6) But bigger picture, Orien feels that the two places we have been have proven to be beyond our current abilities, and would look elsewhere for a next adventure. It just isn't a whole lot of fun to put all this time into making this party then having us get wiped out without penetrating at all into the more interesting parts of the places we are supposed to be exploring, and not really pushing the story forward in any meaningful way.
MY RESPONSE:
There is no overarching story here. It’s a sandbox setting where there are adventures to explore together. You can clean out the Caves of Chaos, kill undead in the Barrowmaze, etc. I like that most of you have provided a backstory that tells me why you are here and gives me something to create side stories each of you personally, but those wont come to light right away. For now you are trying to get some experience, prove your worth, establish connections with NPCs, etc.
7) So in synopsis, I'd like to find ways we can focus less, and spend far less time, on the mundane aspects of the system like buying food and lighting torches, and put more time into developing our characters interaction with the world. Charge us a little money and just consider it done. Our characters have lived in the world, they know they need to buy food, they know where to get it - that part doesn't need to be played out as rigorously. Stuff like Madeleine's spells or buying a special weapon is different, and I thought that was handled well, but not the mundane stuff. And secondly, I think there needs to be a better "flow" of combat. If every encounter sends us fleeing back to town, we'll never get anywhere. So if we are doing something wrong in not being diligent about vetting the places we are going, we need to change that. But if not, I think the encounters we have need to be crafted better around the story. The battle we had yesterday, for example, would have made more sense to me if it happened at a Burial Mound, rather than as the result of encountering some toads.
MY RESPONSE:
I agree with better flow of combat and I addressed that above. But fleeing back to town after a few combats is standard. I wouldn’t suggest camping out in the Barrowmoors anymore than I would suggest camping out in the Caves of Chaos- They are not safe. There is a reason the town is not very far away- its to rest, recouperate and replenish supplies and henchmen.
Again, the battles yesterday were random encounters. Two brought on by your actions ( hanging out for an hour and digging graves, shouting out to your friends so you they could find you).
Also, we only play for about 4 hrs when you factor in computer connection issues, players having to go off to take care of personal things, etc. In that time I try to get in a fair amount of both roll playing and combat in. Its not always balanced, sometimes its heavy on the role play, other times its heavy on the encounters.
8) Taking turns for actions - I think the player characters (not Tom) should name a caller to ask each character what they are doing, and that the caller should keep track of action order - I personally vote to use round-robbin - fair, fun and simple.
MY RESPONSE:
Im not sure what Adam means by this, I think everyone is telling me what their characters are doing, but if you guys opt to assign a caller to speak for all your actions Im open to that
9)Porters etc. Cadfael will never take more than one from now on. It gets cumbersome and expensive!
MY RESPONSE:
LOL yes especially when the run off into the dense fog of a the undead infested Barrowwmoor..
10) Oil - good idea about pre-made molotov cocktails. We could keep a couple in belt/sholder harness/vest harnes, and draw, light and throw and still have a movement (half-move or 5'?) action also allowed in that round. Question: is there such a thing as a smoldering taper - like a punk or cigarette etc, rather than using a torch to light the oil? Like a "match" people used to light cannon fuses.
MY RESPONSE:
No there isn’t a way to keep a constantly list item other than a torch really. But prepairing Molotov cocktails is always an option. Also note torches last for two hours each, so even having on lit and on hand when going into dangerous areas is worth it so you can easily light other torches or oil ( since trying to get one lit with flint and steel isn’t easy, especially when zombies are chasing you)
11) Last - not sure what to do about it, but only having 7 HP's is a real pain and naturally produces a more cautions approach (run away!!!). Two desent hits from anything at all and we will be burrying, or cremating if it is the elf :), someone. Here are two very simple solutions: (a) give us more HP's! (b) somehow make it that we have access to cheap CLW potions (at the moment they are very expensive).
MY RESPONSE:
As Ive said before, I think Im more than fair on what I offer for healing ( well beyond the B/X rules). Clerics can swap out healing for free, you can bandage for 1d3 hit points after battle, you can heal back in town for 1d6 hit points, If you fall below zero and make a save vs Death you don’t die, you can pay a cleric back in town to heal you, you can buy healing salves that cure 1d3 hit points.
Yes having 7 hit points sucks. Having better armor, a shield and helmet certainly helps, as does hiring men at arms to surround you and keep you safe.
12) I also agree with people about initiative. I don't think that round robin really reflects the characters though. It should be a rare day, indeed, that Golar goes before Orien, so I think that some way of doing initiative that reflects a character's skills is best if it can be simple enough to run. Perhaps an initiative roll modified by dex as Bill suggests makes sense. Perhaps we only roll initiative once per battle rather than once per round? I also really like the idea of one of the players calling the turns out rather than Tom. Its one less thing for him to have to manage during a busy combat.
Im ok with switching to someone rolling Initiative once then staying with that order. This may be easier but it removes the option of the party ( and the monsters as well) from getting two back to back actions. But in this case, individual initiative based on dex wouldn’t apply.
MY RESPONSE:
Im ok with someone else counting out initiative.
13) I don't mind spell declaration at the top of the round but if we do that, then whoever is calling the turns should call for spells by character, I.e. "Top of the round. Myra: spells [i speak], Cadfael: spells [Adam speaks]", etc. That said, not having spell declaration or spell spoilage is advantageous to the party so if we feel we are too weak, then this would be a small change that would help the cause.
MY RESPONSE:
Agreed- If someone wants to handle this fine by me- makes it easier for me believe me.
14) I also agree with people that our apparent weakness vs. the various tasks and quests is somewhat discouraging. We were completely unprepared for Barrowmoor. Our spells were ineffective, our night vision was ineffective, our weapons were ineffective, and even Cadfaels turn undead which should have been a powerful skill was largely ineffective. I felt like we asked the right people the right questions around town and not one of them clued us in to any of this. I can see us deserving to get our asses handed to us if we got some of that advice and went in there with no thought to strategy than "Let's get them!" I.e. if you go around stupidly and stubbornly, you deserve to get beat up, but if you're cautious and put some reasonable thought into what you're about to do, you should be able to avoid some consequences.
MY RESPONSE:
You knew you were going to be going into a place with undead. Why Cadfaels turn undead wasnt effective is a mystery ( or could be he just rolled low every time- remember he gets -1 cumulative on each turn). Your adventurers – adventurers are crazy. Normal people don’t risk their lives in tombs and caves. You often learn by trial and error. Well now you know better. Another note I want to mention about Cadfael's turning ability. Remember he is only 1st level. When you encounter an undead that keeps getting up every time you "kill" it, doesnt seem affected by your weapons and who exudes some kind of fear ability that causes half your group to flee in terror- It likely these undead arent your common everyday household zombies and therefore beyond his ability to turn. That doesnt mean they are too powerrul, it means you resort to other methods of dealing with them ( holy water), or better yet RUN!!!!!. Again- Trial and Error- if and when you encounter them again, youll no better....
15) One other suggestion is that we have a set marching order that we fax or email to Tom before we play. I think one order for in dungeons going 2 abreast and one for the wilderness when we can be more spread out. Tom can make the call as to whether we're in an area spacious enough for the spread out formation or not and set up our figures accordingly if we run into a battle.
MY RESPONSE:
Works for me as long as I have all the hireling info ahead of time so I can set things up. Also who will be carrying light.
16) Myra suggests we don't use porters or men-at-arms any more. Using porters is not much different from human sacrifice, and perhaps more important (in her mind anyway) is they're a bad investment. If we want more power, we should get people like Thad who have hit points and skills. If we want to be able to carry lots of stuff, we should get mules. For 30gp one mule can carry 200lbs of stuff, or double that with a movement penalty. If the mule gets killed we don't need to worry about next of kin, etc. and it's body can be left to Hearn's realm. (What did you call it, Brother Cafael? The wheel of life?) And if we need torches to be carried, we can carry them ourselves. OK, maybe one or two porters for the whole party at most (they can take care of the mules, too).
MY RESPONSE
A very sound alternative…
17) Regarding the Barrowmoors, Myra feels we are uniquely unsuited to be successful there. All of our best strengths and skills are virtually useless there. We could come up with an elaborate strategy involving a lot of oil, at-the-ready molotov cocktails, haul in our own firewood, and somehow procure several gallons of holy water, but that is a very expensive venture. She recommends that a different quest would be a smarter investment of our funds right now. The three that come to mind are the other quest that the wizard gave her, the Abandoned Mine with Mikko's help, or the Citadel of the Iron God with Ironfist's support.
MY RESPONSE:
That’s fine, I just need notice so I can prepare for the next adventure. I also have some town based adventures I can run if people want so me of that. The reason you did well up to this point is because the factors of the Caves and encounters to and from were easily manageable ( sleep, visibility, etc). The Barrowmoors represent a different set of obstacles to overcome- but they are tombs- so the chance for bigger treasure is more likely than what goblins will be carrying around. Your choice. But…If you don’t like dealing with undead, you have already been warned that undead were sighted at the Citadel of the Iron God. Undead are nasty aren’t they- no morale and they just keep getting up after you kill them.
18) Old School "style" - in general I really like the
stripped down,
simplified rules, but... the need for
hirelings, constantly being on
the verge of death, only ever getting our foot
in the door (and then
running away), and amount of time spent on
inventory/hireling
management is seriously detracting from the amount of fun. I
really
want to be able to get to the "meat" of the adventure.
MY RESPONSE:
Yes hirelings, constantly on the verge of death, running back to town to heal up. Thats old school. But again YOUR FIRST LEVEL- in most any edition of the game thats standard. Again, about inventory/management- we will all work on a way to get this done outside of game time. The "Meat" of the adventure... Well in the Caves of Chaos it is killing goblins and collecting their heads. In the Barrowmaze it is finding three sapphire skeletons and ( most likely killing them) and taking their gems.
MY RESPONSE:
Yes hirelings, constantly on the verge of death, running back to town to heal up. Thats old school. But again YOUR FIRST LEVEL- in most any edition of the game thats standard. Again, about inventory/management- we will all work on a way to get this done outside of game time. The "Meat" of the adventure... Well in the Caves of Chaos it is killing goblins and collecting their heads. In the Barrowmaze it is finding three sapphire skeletons and ( most likely killing them) and taking their gems.
19) Hirelings: HATE them. I don't feel
like they add anything to the game.
We need them because we're weak, but they
don't make the game any
better. I would really like to find a way to not need
them. That being
said, I do like the idea that the characters with a high
Charisma (not
me) can have a single dedicated follower (possibly who can gain
levels
to keep them relevant). Currently, it seems like if it's worth while
to
hire a few hirelings, it'd probably be even better to hire a whole
company of
40 or 50 fighting men and make our own mercenary band. Then
we'd be able to
take on a cave of goblins and actually root them all
out. But I don't think any
of us really want to play that way...
MY RESPONSE:
Then don't hire them and take your chances. I dont force you to hire them, they are an option to increase survival. If you could afford to hire a company of 40 to 50 ( not that you would ever find that many in the whole Northern Reaches) and wanted to pay for all their expenses and run them into the caves, more power to you. But I dont think that would be fun for anyone really. And talk about hirelings getting underfoot and needing over management....
20) Oil: Honestly, oil really bugs me. It's one of the most effective weapons we have because we're weak, but it seems silly. We're carrying around bandoleers of Molotov cocktails? Really? Why don't the monsters do the same? If they ever do we're totally screwed. Also, why not just have an "oil thrower" class?
MY RESPONSE:
Well its part of the game mechanic as an option. Really its not much different than the 4th edition wizard always getting to cast magic missile spell or other grenade like weapons offered in other editions. Its a classic trope of not only Old School but also fantasy adventure genre in general. If you think they are silly then dont buy them or use them. But maybe my monsters now will, hmmmmm
21) Hit Points: I agree with Bill, coming close to death (or dying) in a climactic battle is a great part of the story, but coming very close to death in even the most mundane encounters isn't really very fun.
MY RESPONSE:
Again- YOUR FIRST LEVEL. I can see you being upset if your 5th level or 10th level lets say and you get wiped out by giant centipedes. Thats very un climactic, but your first level, your not heros, not special, your "ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances". None of these encounters should feel mundane to you as everyone should be a battle for your lives in the hopes of gaining treasure and experience points. The only way do what your asking is to attack you with 1 hit point giant rats for every encounter and for the climactic battle, I attack you with a 6 hp orc- not very interesting at all really.
22) Inventory management: hate it. I would really prefer the limited time we have to be about the story and the adventure and less about record keeping. Certain items (Oil, holy water, etc.) should be precious commodities with a big effect, only a few in the party, etc. Almost everything else seems just too mundane to track, how much food do we have? do I have 9 iron spikes or 8? How many torches do we have? who has them? I don't really care. In some ways our characters are more worldly than we, the players, are, I'd like to leave the more mundane issues to them and let us worry about the role-playing.
MY RESPONSE:
Again, I think you all are making a bigger deal of this than there really is. Ive not been persnickety at all with regard to if you have 8 or 9 iron spikes or whatever. Im merely asking who has what and if you gain new stuff, who is carrying it. Ive already pointed out why this is important to me and the group. Also, you as players are probably far more worldly than your characters, and in role playing games, in general the knowledge they have is often based on what you know and applied to the setting they are in. I am leaving the mundane issues to them, i dont ask you when they pee or poop or what and when they eat (unless its adventure specific), etc.
23) Initiative: I really prefer individual initiative. It adds more flavor. I'd suggest doing all the monsters at once (or in blocks of 3-5) except for the important PC type monsters (Riva, the ogre, etc.) Hirelings/followers should act at the same time as their employer or just go last.
MY RESPONSE:
As ive said before we can work on another option for initiative, but the simpler the better is what I want. Its pretty simple now, the only issue that started all this discussion is that the party rolls initiative vs the encounter and whomever wins goes first and that I just go round the table so to speak as you each take your turn. Some thought this always put them at the end of the table and wasnt fair, and others complained they werent aware initiative was being rolled and never called out their spell casting. These issues are minor and can be worked out. But I dont want to bog down the game with lots of initiatives, counting down,initiative modifiers, etc.
24) Story: I'd really like to have a story that influences some of the game, at least a bit. I wrote in a family "magic item" into my back story, it would be great if it was in the story somewhere, same thing with other character's back stories.
MY RESPONSE:
As I said already, I like that each of you have done that an I have taken that into account. Two of the players are already working on elements of their back story. I did not forget your "magic item" either. But you cant expect to find that "element" right away, or whats the point. Each of you are working your way toward your "backstory element" in your own way and also exploring other adventuring options.
25) Porters: I agree with Madeline that having mules is a better idea, but it would also be nice if we didn't have to worry about carrying tonnes of stuff. To that end maybe we could do away with every monster having a few silver and just give the leaders more gold / gems, etc.
MY RESPONSE:
Then go for the mules and carry everything into the dungeons yourselves. And for the record, every "leader" you have met and dealt with ( the ogre- although he wasnt a leader, and the bandit leader) all had more gold/treasure than their followers.
26) Game tokens: honestly +1 to a die roll, is kind of weak, +5 to a die roll is pretty useful, so if we can spend a bunch on a single role, that'd be great (still confused about this point). Having said that, if we only get one a session, it'll be pretty rare you can do anything really cool with you game tokens. I'd like to try making them fairly powerful in game terms, think "epic fantasy" moments like allowing the M-U to cast her spell despite having been stabbed, or allowing an automatic hit, or cause maximum damage for one attack, recover a bunch of hit points, etc. Characters should then get 1/2 or 1 point per session with Tom giving out extras for doing something really cool (like Cadfel and the hold person scroll).
MY RESPONSE:
Game tokens were a devise option I created to allow characters who do creative things in the game to gain something that they could use to benefit them somehow down the road. You dont deserve them Im being nice enough to give you them. Yes a +1 is better than nothing at all. That said, I decided to allow you to combine them for more effect. Right now the only way you get them is for things I find enhance the gaming experience- not just general use of combat and spells ( Adams use of the Hold Person scroll was perfectly appropriate). I get what you mean about "epic fantasy moments" and again YOUR FIRST LEVEL. So even a few points here and there to offset a Save or Die roll or whatever is better than nothing.
Now in other games ( mazes and minotaurs) they do use a Hero Point system that gives you one point per level ( and more if you perform heroic actions) that allow for amazing "epic fantasy feats". I may change out game tokens and use the Hero Point System- we will have to see. But for now- DONT LOOK A GIFT HORSE IN THE MOUTH.
27) This may sound a bit heretical, but I think the easiest answer to some of the issues would be to have all the PCs start at 3rd level. -We wouldn't be so reliant on hirelings -Death wouldn't be around every corner -Oil would be much less important
MY RESPONSE:
Well thats an option, but at 3rd level you all would be complaining about different things ( monsters too hard, spells not as affective, etc). Besides I like the idea of proving your worth through the lower levels. Death is always around every corner, its the reality of the Dungeons and Dragons ( but I hear computer games are great because if you die you can just start over like nothing happened- how fun...). Ive already had my say about oil and hirelings, if you dont like them you dont have to use them.
MY RESPONSE:
Then don't hire them and take your chances. I dont force you to hire them, they are an option to increase survival. If you could afford to hire a company of 40 to 50 ( not that you would ever find that many in the whole Northern Reaches) and wanted to pay for all their expenses and run them into the caves, more power to you. But I dont think that would be fun for anyone really. And talk about hirelings getting underfoot and needing over management....
20) Oil: Honestly, oil really bugs me. It's one of the most effective weapons we have because we're weak, but it seems silly. We're carrying around bandoleers of Molotov cocktails? Really? Why don't the monsters do the same? If they ever do we're totally screwed. Also, why not just have an "oil thrower" class?
MY RESPONSE:
Well its part of the game mechanic as an option. Really its not much different than the 4th edition wizard always getting to cast magic missile spell or other grenade like weapons offered in other editions. Its a classic trope of not only Old School but also fantasy adventure genre in general. If you think they are silly then dont buy them or use them. But maybe my monsters now will, hmmmmm
21) Hit Points: I agree with Bill, coming close to death (or dying) in a climactic battle is a great part of the story, but coming very close to death in even the most mundane encounters isn't really very fun.
MY RESPONSE:
Again- YOUR FIRST LEVEL. I can see you being upset if your 5th level or 10th level lets say and you get wiped out by giant centipedes. Thats very un climactic, but your first level, your not heros, not special, your "ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances". None of these encounters should feel mundane to you as everyone should be a battle for your lives in the hopes of gaining treasure and experience points. The only way do what your asking is to attack you with 1 hit point giant rats for every encounter and for the climactic battle, I attack you with a 6 hp orc- not very interesting at all really.
22) Inventory management: hate it. I would really prefer the limited time we have to be about the story and the adventure and less about record keeping. Certain items (Oil, holy water, etc.) should be precious commodities with a big effect, only a few in the party, etc. Almost everything else seems just too mundane to track, how much food do we have? do I have 9 iron spikes or 8? How many torches do we have? who has them? I don't really care. In some ways our characters are more worldly than we, the players, are, I'd like to leave the more mundane issues to them and let us worry about the role-playing.
MY RESPONSE:
Again, I think you all are making a bigger deal of this than there really is. Ive not been persnickety at all with regard to if you have 8 or 9 iron spikes or whatever. Im merely asking who has what and if you gain new stuff, who is carrying it. Ive already pointed out why this is important to me and the group. Also, you as players are probably far more worldly than your characters, and in role playing games, in general the knowledge they have is often based on what you know and applied to the setting they are in. I am leaving the mundane issues to them, i dont ask you when they pee or poop or what and when they eat (unless its adventure specific), etc.
23) Initiative: I really prefer individual initiative. It adds more flavor. I'd suggest doing all the monsters at once (or in blocks of 3-5) except for the important PC type monsters (Riva, the ogre, etc.) Hirelings/followers should act at the same time as their employer or just go last.
MY RESPONSE:
As ive said before we can work on another option for initiative, but the simpler the better is what I want. Its pretty simple now, the only issue that started all this discussion is that the party rolls initiative vs the encounter and whomever wins goes first and that I just go round the table so to speak as you each take your turn. Some thought this always put them at the end of the table and wasnt fair, and others complained they werent aware initiative was being rolled and never called out their spell casting. These issues are minor and can be worked out. But I dont want to bog down the game with lots of initiatives, counting down,initiative modifiers, etc.
24) Story: I'd really like to have a story that influences some of the game, at least a bit. I wrote in a family "magic item" into my back story, it would be great if it was in the story somewhere, same thing with other character's back stories.
MY RESPONSE:
As I said already, I like that each of you have done that an I have taken that into account. Two of the players are already working on elements of their back story. I did not forget your "magic item" either. But you cant expect to find that "element" right away, or whats the point. Each of you are working your way toward your "backstory element" in your own way and also exploring other adventuring options.
25) Porters: I agree with Madeline that having mules is a better idea, but it would also be nice if we didn't have to worry about carrying tonnes of stuff. To that end maybe we could do away with every monster having a few silver and just give the leaders more gold / gems, etc.
MY RESPONSE:
Then go for the mules and carry everything into the dungeons yourselves. And for the record, every "leader" you have met and dealt with ( the ogre- although he wasnt a leader, and the bandit leader) all had more gold/treasure than their followers.
26) Game tokens: honestly +1 to a die roll, is kind of weak, +5 to a die roll is pretty useful, so if we can spend a bunch on a single role, that'd be great (still confused about this point). Having said that, if we only get one a session, it'll be pretty rare you can do anything really cool with you game tokens. I'd like to try making them fairly powerful in game terms, think "epic fantasy" moments like allowing the M-U to cast her spell despite having been stabbed, or allowing an automatic hit, or cause maximum damage for one attack, recover a bunch of hit points, etc. Characters should then get 1/2 or 1 point per session with Tom giving out extras for doing something really cool (like Cadfel and the hold person scroll).
MY RESPONSE:
Game tokens were a devise option I created to allow characters who do creative things in the game to gain something that they could use to benefit them somehow down the road. You dont deserve them Im being nice enough to give you them. Yes a +1 is better than nothing at all. That said, I decided to allow you to combine them for more effect. Right now the only way you get them is for things I find enhance the gaming experience- not just general use of combat and spells ( Adams use of the Hold Person scroll was perfectly appropriate). I get what you mean about "epic fantasy moments" and again YOUR FIRST LEVEL. So even a few points here and there to offset a Save or Die roll or whatever is better than nothing.
Now in other games ( mazes and minotaurs) they do use a Hero Point system that gives you one point per level ( and more if you perform heroic actions) that allow for amazing "epic fantasy feats". I may change out game tokens and use the Hero Point System- we will have to see. But for now- DONT LOOK A GIFT HORSE IN THE MOUTH.
27) This may sound a bit heretical, but I think the easiest answer to some of the issues would be to have all the PCs start at 3rd level. -We wouldn't be so reliant on hirelings -Death wouldn't be around every corner -Oil would be much less important
MY RESPONSE:
Well thats an option, but at 3rd level you all would be complaining about different things ( monsters too hard, spells not as affective, etc). Besides I like the idea of proving your worth through the lower levels. Death is always around every corner, its the reality of the Dungeons and Dragons ( but I hear computer games are great because if you die you can just start over like nothing happened- how fun...). Ive already had my say about oil and hirelings, if you dont like them you dont have to use them.
I need some OD&D online advise
So as you know I started running an online game using the B/X rules as a base. I have been running 3.5/pathfinder for over 10 yrs now so am a bit rusty with running old school again. Half of the group has only played old school, while the other half has also played 3rd. I think things have been going along pretty well as the party I am running has survived up to this point. I am trying to hold to some of the values and mechanics of old school but also have to keep in mind were playing with a limited time, limited group, using online software ( skype which is often quirky).
Also remember we brought back three bodies laden with food, oil, torches, etc. So most of what we used this time could be easily replenished from that. But I still don't mind paying the "flat fee" so we don't have to parse out where every torch and flask of oil went. That is just a waste of time, imo.
Im trying to run a game that is rules light to limit lots of needless die roll, but also understand things like resource management is important in old school because so much of the groups survival depends on what they have, etc. If interested you can see the exact rules I am running here on the blog ( House Rules & Ordinary People in Extraordinary Circumstances)
Ive definately been feeling some frustration from some players in the group and Im always open to feedback so I asked what people felt about the last session and below is the feedback I got. Some of what they say is valid, some not so much, and some is just part of the feel of old school play. I wont go into every detail about the hows and whys of what they bring up, ill save that for later. But I do want to keep the group and everyone involved since its a lot of work for me to invest not to have people interested in the game.
So, have any other DM's faced similar gripes and issues specifically with regard to running an online game but also in regard to the style of running old school. Im open to feedback, advise, etc.
Here are some of the replies:
1) Regarding initiative, I am sort of a convert to individual initiative. I think this gives a better feel of the "chaos of combat." I would suggest rolling a d6 or d8 and having characters add their DX bonus, and perhaps have penalties for heavy armor or huge weapons. Then just count down from 8 or 10 to one, with each character reacting on their number. Monsters could be rolled as a group if there are lots of them, or individually if there are just a few.
I think the bigger issue with initiative is how spells are handled. In my systems, I long ago moved away from the "spoil the spell" rule, so spell casters don't have to declare spells at the beginning of the round. I find this makes things flow far better. If you retain the spell declaration, there really has to be a call for spells at some point when the initiative die is rolled. I think with individual initiative, spell casters would be prompted better to declare their spell because it would be a more active process. Also, spells could have an initiative modifier (perhaps even different modifiers for different spells), which would impact the roll and force the caster to call the spell to get the correct modifier.
So either way, I think individual initiative is a better solution and would actually make play more interactive, interesting, and fun.
It did take a bit to get things off the ground again with hirelings and such...
2) Unfortunately it cost nearly all your hirelings
Yes it did. I think there are a couple of issues around this that should be considered.
First, on a bigger picture, I think there is a lot of "resource micro-management" going on which is taking up a lot of time, in my opinion somewhat needlessly. This is compounded horribly when you factor in all these groupies, who each need to be micro managed to the nth degree. I would suggest that you develop a "standard pack" for porters, and one perhaps for fighting hirelings, and the assign a basic cost for the upkeep of said pack when we get back to town. The same can be done for the characters. It will just save a lot of time and hassle, especially since we seem to need to replace the hirelings after virtually every adventure.
This brings me to my second point, which is the lethality of combat and the relative power of our characters. Were I Orien (which in a sense I am), I would be thinking to myself, "what the hell am I doing wrong?" In the last two adventures we have come a hair's breath from being wiped out. And so far we have yet to penetrate barely beyond the entrance to the Caves of Chaos, and didn't even find a burial mound in the Barrows. I could see having a big climactic battle that really tests us when we have actually gotten somewhere. But being essentially wiped out at the doorstep of these two places has Orien (me) thinking that these places are way above our heads, and that we need to find somewhere that is more appropriate.
I feel like we tried to gather information in Barrowmoor. Perhaps if the place was too powerful some kind Cleric maybe could have given us a clue and pointed us elsewhere. But I have to say it is pretty discouraging to watch half your party get destroyed every adventure - especially when it is in such seemingly benign encounters like a few giant toads.
Yes, the party members themselves have survived by the skin of their teeth, but Orien looks around and realizes he has exactly one hit point more than most of the porters, and thinks, "there but for the grace of Hearn go I." It seems to me that characters who are level 1 should have their zero level hit points to make them relatively more powerful than the porters. If Bryrig had ever advanced, for example, he would have gotten a second d4 or d6 of hit points for now being level one. I think giving the characters that would make us a bit more resilient and also differentiate the characters a bit better from their hirelings.
But bigger picture, Orien feels that the two places we have been have proven to be beyond our current abilities, and would look elsewhere for a next adventure. It just isn't a whole lot of fun to put all this time into making this party then having us get wiped out without penetrating at all into the more interesting parts of the places we are supposed to be exploring, and not really pushing the story forward in any meaningful way.
So in synopsis, I'd like to find ways we can focus less, and spend far less time, on the mundane aspects of the system like buying food and lighting torches, and put more time into developing our characters interaction with the world. Charge us a little money and just consider it done. Our characters have lived in the world, they know they need to buy food, they know where to get it - that part doesn't need to be played out as rigorously. Stuff like Myra's spells or buying a special weapon is different, and I thought that was handled well, but not the mundane stuff. And secondly, I think there needs to be a better "flow" of combat. If every encounter sends us fleeing back to town, we'll never get anywhere. So if we are doing something wrong in not being diligent about vetting the places we are going, we need to change that. But if not, I think the encounters we have need to be crafted better around the story. The battle we had yesterday, for example, would have made more sense to me if it happened at a Burial Mound, rather than as the result of encountering some toads.
It should be fun, and right now it kind of isn't. Which isn't to say it can't be. I really like the world and the characters and feel we have a good base from which to build. But these are some improvements I'd like to see. Obviously open to other opinions on this, but thought I'd at least voice what was on my mind.
I think the bigger issue with initiative is how spells are handled. In my systems, I long ago moved away from the "spoil the spell" rule, so spell casters don't have to declare spells at the beginning of the round. I find this makes things flow far better. If you retain the spell declaration, there really has to be a call for spells at some point when the initiative die is rolled. I think with individual initiative, spell casters would be prompted better to declare their spell because it would be a more active process. Also, spells could have an initiative modifier (perhaps even different modifiers for different spells), which would impact the roll and force the caster to call the spell to get the correct modifier.
So either way, I think individual initiative is a better solution and would actually make play more interactive, interesting, and fun.
It did take a bit to get things off the ground again with hirelings and such...
2) Unfortunately it cost nearly all your hirelings
First, on a bigger picture, I think there is a lot of "resource micro-management" going on which is taking up a lot of time, in my opinion somewhat needlessly. This is compounded horribly when you factor in all these groupies, who each need to be micro managed to the nth degree. I would suggest that you develop a "standard pack" for porters, and one perhaps for fighting hirelings, and the assign a basic cost for the upkeep of said pack when we get back to town. The same can be done for the characters. It will just save a lot of time and hassle, especially since we seem to need to replace the hirelings after virtually every adventure.
This brings me to my second point, which is the lethality of combat and the relative power of our characters. Were I Orien (which in a sense I am), I would be thinking to myself, "what the hell am I doing wrong?" In the last two adventures we have come a hair's breath from being wiped out. And so far we have yet to penetrate barely beyond the entrance to the Caves of Chaos, and didn't even find a burial mound in the Barrows. I could see having a big climactic battle that really tests us when we have actually gotten somewhere. But being essentially wiped out at the doorstep of these two places has Orien (me) thinking that these places are way above our heads, and that we need to find somewhere that is more appropriate.
I feel like we tried to gather information in Barrowmoor. Perhaps if the place was too powerful some kind Cleric maybe could have given us a clue and pointed us elsewhere. But I have to say it is pretty discouraging to watch half your party get destroyed every adventure - especially when it is in such seemingly benign encounters like a few giant toads.
Yes, the party members themselves have survived by the skin of their teeth, but Orien looks around and realizes he has exactly one hit point more than most of the porters, and thinks, "there but for the grace of Hearn go I." It seems to me that characters who are level 1 should have their zero level hit points to make them relatively more powerful than the porters. If Bryrig had ever advanced, for example, he would have gotten a second d4 or d6 of hit points for now being level one. I think giving the characters that would make us a bit more resilient and also differentiate the characters a bit better from their hirelings.
But bigger picture, Orien feels that the two places we have been have proven to be beyond our current abilities, and would look elsewhere for a next adventure. It just isn't a whole lot of fun to put all this time into making this party then having us get wiped out without penetrating at all into the more interesting parts of the places we are supposed to be exploring, and not really pushing the story forward in any meaningful way.
So in synopsis, I'd like to find ways we can focus less, and spend far less time, on the mundane aspects of the system like buying food and lighting torches, and put more time into developing our characters interaction with the world. Charge us a little money and just consider it done. Our characters have lived in the world, they know they need to buy food, they know where to get it - that part doesn't need to be played out as rigorously. Stuff like Myra's spells or buying a special weapon is different, and I thought that was handled well, but not the mundane stuff. And secondly, I think there needs to be a better "flow" of combat. If every encounter sends us fleeing back to town, we'll never get anywhere. So if we are doing something wrong in not being diligent about vetting the places we are going, we need to change that. But if not, I think the encounters we have need to be crafted better around the story. The battle we had yesterday, for example, would have made more sense to me if it happened at a Burial Mound, rather than as the result of encountering some toads.
It should be fun, and right now it kind of isn't. Which isn't to say it can't be. I really like the world and the characters and feel we have a good base from which to build. But these are some improvements I'd like to see. Obviously open to other opinions on this, but thought I'd at least voice what was on my mind.
3) I also wish we could speed things up by not worrying so much about inventory. It has to be realistic of course, and we cannot each be carrying 15 flasks of oil, but it's a bit time-consuming I feel. I am happy to be a bit vague an not count things to the penny, and leave all rullings, without question, to Tom. I want to enjoy Tom's imagination, not get burdened down with inventory issues.
4) Taking turns for actions - I think the player characters (not Tom) should name a caller to ask each character what they are doing, and that the caller should keep track of action order - I personally vote to use round-robbin - fair, fun and simple.
5) I agree with less strategising - the less strategising in game time, the better. Just slows things up. But I actually think we are pretty good about that. But we should discuss strategy off-line (ie in the Tavern - such as the use of coordinated attacks, flanking (+1), back attack (+2 or +4 for ANYone!) oil, etc.
6) Porters etc. Cadfael will never take more than one from now on. It gets cumbersome and expensive!
7) Oil - good idea about pre-made molotov cocktails. We could keep a couple in belt/sholder harness/vest harnes, and draw, light and throw and still have a movement (half-move or 5'?) action also allowed in that round. Question: is there such a thing as a smoldering taper - like a punk or cigarette etc, rather than using a torch to light the oil? Like a "match" people used to light cannon fuses.
8) Last - not sure what to do about it, but only having 7 HP's is a real pain and naturally produces a more cautions approach (run away!!!). Two desent hits from anything at all and we will be burrying, or cremating if it is the elf :), someone. Here are two very simple solutions: (a) give us more HP's! (b) somehow make it that we have access to cheap CLW potions (at the moment they are very expensive).
9) Here is exactly what I was talking about earlier. Other than the holy water, I think it should be assumed we just replenish our packs to the stated amounts on our character sheet. Charge us a set amount for this.
Also remember we brought back three bodies laden with food, oil, torches, etc. So most of what we used this time could be easily replenished from that. But I still don't mind paying the "flat fee" so we don't have to parse out where every torch and flask of oil went. That is just a waste of time, imo.
10) I'm out of the hireling game. Orien is guilt-ridden and grieving and is considering retiring. He feels he has failed to properly assess the dangers that he exposed his hirelings to.
ADVENTURES IN THE NORTHERN REACHES #5
Session #5 (4-21-12): Into The Barrowmoor
(or Greenhorns vs Greenfrogs)
(or Greenhorns vs Greenfrogs)
The group met up at the Flaming Troll in Theshold and Myra told them about her experience with the Wizard of ID (Here) and her desire to explore the Barrowmaze. Orien agreed as he was frustrated with the Caves of Chaos. So the group gathered up their hirelings Bryrig and Wargrim the torch bearers, Galdreel the elf man at arms and Brother Cadfael hired another porter named Ardo and Myra hires on a fighting man named Thad. Off to Barrowcrest the group went.
They arrived in the village of Barrowcrest without incident a few days later and visited the Brazen Strumpet to get food, rest and information on the Barrowmoor. The group got some rumors here and there from the locals. Mostly that it was always a place to be avoided, but as of late the undead have been reported in the area with number, strange creatures have been sighted and adventure seekers have gone in seeking wealth and few if any return. Cadfael decides to hire on two more porters and the group also meets a halfling named Callam ( a player character), who says he has been to the barrows and would serve as a guide ( well he actually knows the area where they are but that's about it).
The next day they spend the morning equipping themselves and their hirelings and make sure to buy a few sledge hammers and iron wedges as suggested by the merchant at the trade goods store. Brother Cadfael goes off to the local church of Mitra and awaits for the morning sermon to be over so he can speak the local priest, Father Malloray. He doesn't learn much from the priest other than what the locals had been saying- the undead are rising once again, strange monsters in the area etc. Although the priest did inform Cadfael he thinks someone or something is behind this- a malevolent force or evil cult of some kind. He thinks anyone entering the Barrowmoor is crazy, but is definitely willing to support them if they are going to be wiping out undead and dealing with what is causing the recent activity in the area. He gives Brother Cadfael a vial of holy water.
The group heads out late morning, eleven in number, and heads south into the Barrowmoor. As they draw into the area, they notice how quiet the Barrowmoors are. No sounds of animals or birds, the trees are all lifeless and thick with lichens and molds, the spongy wet earth stinks as they make their way across it. And everywhere there is a heavy fog so dense in some areas the group cannot see much beyond 30ft.
It is very late in the day, almost to dusk when the group is surprised by a group of giant frogs. They leap out from all directions. One attacks and kills the porter Norman who was taking up the rear of the party, and the others attacks Myra, Thad and the halfling Callam. In the battle, Galdreel suffers a mortal wound and dies as well. Myra manages to get a sleep spell off and the creatures are dispatched. Four giant frogs dead, two hirelings and no treasure- and the group has just gotten to the moors, not looking good.
There is some discussion as to what to do with the bodies and since Wargrim is the only one who has a shovel, they decide to all stand around and watch while he digs two shallow graves. This takes an hour, and as they are just about finished and laying their friends in their graves, two dark figures can be seen shambling toward the group from the heavy fog.
Although it is hard to see them clearly in the dense fog, Orien's bow and Myra's x bow take down the shambling figures and Myra and Thad go up to investigate while the others hold back. What they come upon are the rotting remains of two undead- zombies most likely. No sooner do they take this all in, when the zombies jump up and attack. Overwhelmed by a compulsion of fear, Thad drops his battle axe and flees into the fog. Myra also flees back to the party as two undead make their way toward them.
The group sets to attacking the undead. Brother Cadfael tries to turn them but has no effect and he feels somehow distant from his divine connection with Hearn. One of the creatures gets its hands around Oriens neck and begins to squeeze the life out of him, but a few hits and both the creatures go down. As the party begins to pull out oil and get torches lit to burn the zombies, they jump up once again, seemingly unfazed by their recent injuries. This time their overwhelming fear causes Myra and the two porters Parwick and Ardo to flee into the darkening fog as well. One of the creatures gets its hands around Bryrig's throat and strangles him until his body goes limp, the other attacks the Brother Cadfeal who once again tries to turn them with no affect. Little Callam sneaks around from behind the creatures and surpises them with a solid back attack that should have killed the creatures but they seem unfazed. At this point Cadfael and Callam use their holy water and flaming oil to injure the creatures and they go down for the third time. Immediately they set upon the fallen undead with oil and torches in the hopes of preventing them from rising again.
The remaining group of Orien, Cadfael, Callam and Wargrim bandage their wounds and hang out and wait for the group to return. The fog is denses and it is getting darker as night comes on and it is nearly an hour before Thad returns to the area- having fled and become lost. It occurred to the group ( via divine DM suggestion) that they should call out to their comrades since they would have little hope of finding them in the fog otherwise. So the group sets to shouting for Myra and the others. Myra, who has also been wandering aimlessly about the moors, hears the shouting in the distance and makes her way toward it.
Along the way she spotted a group of figures in the fog she thought was the party hanging out by a burial mound, but as she drew closer she realized with horror, they were in fact more rotting corpses. She quickly laid some gold as an offering to the spirits of the burial mound ( they were told in town the spirits could be appeased with gold), and she fled.
Unfortunately, the shouting eventually gets the attention of a group of zombies and once more they are fighting for their lives. Brother Cadfael tries to turn the zombies again and again but to no avail for Hearn hears him not deep in the Barrowmoor ( and every attempt he was at a -1 cumulative and he had already tried to turn the previous undead 3 times). The zombies bludgeoned Wargrim to death and the rest of the group fled away. Callam ran into some overgrowth and hid as the zombies shuffled past him toward the rest of the group. Cadfael and Thad tried to keep their distance, while Orien climbed up on some rocks to gain advantage with his bow and keep the zombies at bay for a moment.
Brave Callam layed into the zombies from the rear with his sling and in an attempt to draw one off of Orien, but ended up drawing off three of the undead who cornered him in a outcropping of rocks. Meanwhile the rest of the group fled and left their new halfling companion there to defend for himself. Callam fended for his life and managed to take out one of the zombies and severely injure another.
About this time Myra heard the battle and came upon the group, it was now dark and the thick fog was shrouding even the moons light and making it hard to see. Thad went off to help out the halfling and the other followed. Thad got two solid its and took out the rest of the zombies, while the last was lost somewhere in the fog.
The group were thoroughly wiped out and overwhelmed by the nasty encounters the Barrowmoor had just thrown at them. They bandaged wounds, gathered their dropped weapons, and the few fallen hirelings and fled. The other hirelings were clearly lost to the moor. They traveled all night to Barrowcrest and then delivered the bodies of Wargrim, Galdreel and Bryrig to the priest for proper burial. To their surprise, Bryrig was in fact not dead, but gravely wounded, his throat having been crushed when the undead creature strangled him. It will be a few months before he can adventure again, but at least he made it out alive. The group retired to the Brazen Strumpet and brooded over what to do next.....
They arrived in the village of Barrowcrest without incident a few days later and visited the Brazen Strumpet to get food, rest and information on the Barrowmoor. The group got some rumors here and there from the locals. Mostly that it was always a place to be avoided, but as of late the undead have been reported in the area with number, strange creatures have been sighted and adventure seekers have gone in seeking wealth and few if any return. Cadfael decides to hire on two more porters and the group also meets a halfling named Callam ( a player character), who says he has been to the barrows and would serve as a guide ( well he actually knows the area where they are but that's about it).
The next day they spend the morning equipping themselves and their hirelings and make sure to buy a few sledge hammers and iron wedges as suggested by the merchant at the trade goods store. Brother Cadfael goes off to the local church of Mitra and awaits for the morning sermon to be over so he can speak the local priest, Father Malloray. He doesn't learn much from the priest other than what the locals had been saying- the undead are rising once again, strange monsters in the area etc. Although the priest did inform Cadfael he thinks someone or something is behind this- a malevolent force or evil cult of some kind. He thinks anyone entering the Barrowmoor is crazy, but is definitely willing to support them if they are going to be wiping out undead and dealing with what is causing the recent activity in the area. He gives Brother Cadfael a vial of holy water.
The group heads out late morning, eleven in number, and heads south into the Barrowmoor. As they draw into the area, they notice how quiet the Barrowmoors are. No sounds of animals or birds, the trees are all lifeless and thick with lichens and molds, the spongy wet earth stinks as they make their way across it. And everywhere there is a heavy fog so dense in some areas the group cannot see much beyond 30ft.
It is very late in the day, almost to dusk when the group is surprised by a group of giant frogs. They leap out from all directions. One attacks and kills the porter Norman who was taking up the rear of the party, and the others attacks Myra, Thad and the halfling Callam. In the battle, Galdreel suffers a mortal wound and dies as well. Myra manages to get a sleep spell off and the creatures are dispatched. Four giant frogs dead, two hirelings and no treasure- and the group has just gotten to the moors, not looking good.
There is some discussion as to what to do with the bodies and since Wargrim is the only one who has a shovel, they decide to all stand around and watch while he digs two shallow graves. This takes an hour, and as they are just about finished and laying their friends in their graves, two dark figures can be seen shambling toward the group from the heavy fog.
Although it is hard to see them clearly in the dense fog, Orien's bow and Myra's x bow take down the shambling figures and Myra and Thad go up to investigate while the others hold back. What they come upon are the rotting remains of two undead- zombies most likely. No sooner do they take this all in, when the zombies jump up and attack. Overwhelmed by a compulsion of fear, Thad drops his battle axe and flees into the fog. Myra also flees back to the party as two undead make their way toward them.
The group sets to attacking the undead. Brother Cadfael tries to turn them but has no effect and he feels somehow distant from his divine connection with Hearn. One of the creatures gets its hands around Oriens neck and begins to squeeze the life out of him, but a few hits and both the creatures go down. As the party begins to pull out oil and get torches lit to burn the zombies, they jump up once again, seemingly unfazed by their recent injuries. This time their overwhelming fear causes Myra and the two porters Parwick and Ardo to flee into the darkening fog as well. One of the creatures gets its hands around Bryrig's throat and strangles him until his body goes limp, the other attacks the Brother Cadfeal who once again tries to turn them with no affect. Little Callam sneaks around from behind the creatures and surpises them with a solid back attack that should have killed the creatures but they seem unfazed. At this point Cadfael and Callam use their holy water and flaming oil to injure the creatures and they go down for the third time. Immediately they set upon the fallen undead with oil and torches in the hopes of preventing them from rising again.
The remaining group of Orien, Cadfael, Callam and Wargrim bandage their wounds and hang out and wait for the group to return. The fog is denses and it is getting darker as night comes on and it is nearly an hour before Thad returns to the area- having fled and become lost. It occurred to the group ( via divine DM suggestion) that they should call out to their comrades since they would have little hope of finding them in the fog otherwise. So the group sets to shouting for Myra and the others. Myra, who has also been wandering aimlessly about the moors, hears the shouting in the distance and makes her way toward it.
Along the way she spotted a group of figures in the fog she thought was the party hanging out by a burial mound, but as she drew closer she realized with horror, they were in fact more rotting corpses. She quickly laid some gold as an offering to the spirits of the burial mound ( they were told in town the spirits could be appeased with gold), and she fled.
Unfortunately, the shouting eventually gets the attention of a group of zombies and once more they are fighting for their lives. Brother Cadfael tries to turn the zombies again and again but to no avail for Hearn hears him not deep in the Barrowmoor ( and every attempt he was at a -1 cumulative and he had already tried to turn the previous undead 3 times). The zombies bludgeoned Wargrim to death and the rest of the group fled away. Callam ran into some overgrowth and hid as the zombies shuffled past him toward the rest of the group. Cadfael and Thad tried to keep their distance, while Orien climbed up on some rocks to gain advantage with his bow and keep the zombies at bay for a moment.
Brave Callam layed into the zombies from the rear with his sling and in an attempt to draw one off of Orien, but ended up drawing off three of the undead who cornered him in a outcropping of rocks. Meanwhile the rest of the group fled and left their new halfling companion there to defend for himself. Callam fended for his life and managed to take out one of the zombies and severely injure another.
About this time Myra heard the battle and came upon the group, it was now dark and the thick fog was shrouding even the moons light and making it hard to see. Thad went off to help out the halfling and the other followed. Thad got two solid its and took out the rest of the zombies, while the last was lost somewhere in the fog.
The group were thoroughly wiped out and overwhelmed by the nasty encounters the Barrowmoor had just thrown at them. They bandaged wounds, gathered their dropped weapons, and the few fallen hirelings and fled. The other hirelings were clearly lost to the moor. They traveled all night to Barrowcrest and then delivered the bodies of Wargrim, Galdreel and Bryrig to the priest for proper burial. To their surprise, Bryrig was in fact not dead, but gravely wounded, his throat having been crushed when the undead creature strangled him. It will be a few months before he can adventure again, but at least he made it out alive. The group retired to the Brazen Strumpet and brooded over what to do next.....
Friday, April 20, 2012
Off to the Barrowmaze
Tomorrow the group is meeting online again and it
has been decided that they would like to take a break from the Caves of Chaos
and check out the Barrowmaze. We have a new player joining us but another
player cannot make it so should be pretty interesting.
Myra the Wizard sought out the Wizard of ID (
The mysterious wizard who dwells in the Wizards Tower in Threshold and
Identifies things for a price- get it ID, Identify... lol- I like goofy double
entendres like that). Well anyway, after that visit the group has decided to
visit the Barrowmaze. Cool now I get to finally run this awesome adventure. I
cant wait to see how the group deals with the undead. Up to this point their
use of sleep spells have pretty much taken out most encounters before they began.
And one of the fun things about undead is that they aren't affected by Sleep.
Now they do have Brother Cadfael the Cleric of Hearn, which is good since now
this gives another character a chance to shine a bit via his turn undead
ability.
For those interested in the event that transpired
that brought about the party's decision to explore the Barrowmaze here is what
happened:
No lights are visible from the windows on the towers base, but a soft glow can be seen from the windows of the upper part of the tower. Surely the wizard must be in. It is rumored he never leaves his tower except in the guise of another.
You make your way up the stone stairs, and reach the large red painted double doors. There appears to be no way to open the door. As Myra approaches and attempts to open the door, one of the gargoyle heads begins to speak:
"Who comes to the dwelling of the Great Wizard of ID".
" I am Myra", you reply.
The other gargoyle head speaks " What is it you seek with the Great Wizard of ID".
" I seek to speak with the wizard to inquire about spells" you reply.
A moment passes and the gargoyles speak in unison "Speak Friend or Foe and you may enter"....
The doors open inward to low lit room. " Friend, Im am Friend" Myra speaks as she crosses the threshold into the tower.
She comes into a simple small round room with an ornate lantern hanging in the center of the ceiling high above. The walls are draped in heavy purple tapestries with gold fringe and a gold design. In the center of the room is a simple wooden table. As Myra takes this all in, the doors close shut behind her.
The room of the tower is so quiet Myra can hear her heart beating. There is the soft smell of fragrance in the air but Myra cannot place it.
"WELLL!!!!!!" Booms a great voice that echoes in the room and startles Myra.
"Oh, Hi Im Myra and Im here to see about maybe purchasing a spell. Im a Wizard and Im interested in learning Charm Person or Spider Climb".
"DO YOU NOT HAVE A MASTER FROM WHICH TO LEARN THOSE SPELLS" speaks the voice of the Wizard.
" My Master is Barock the Wizard and he is a long way from here and I am in need of more spells" replies Myra.
"VERY WELL.......THE COST PER SPELL IS $1000 GOLD PIECES FOR EACH SPELL. LAY THE MONEY UPON THE TABLE AND RETURN TOMORROW AND YOU SHALL HAVE THE SPELLS YOU SEEK"
"Oh, Myra says, thats kinda alot, I wasnt sure how much it would cost and I dont have the money just now". Myra thinks. " Is there perhaps some way I can perform some service for you in exchange for the spells?" she inquires
"PERHAPS" replies the wizard. " I MUST PONDER YOUR PROPOSAL. RETURN ON THE MORROW AT DUSK AND I SHAL HAVE YOU ANSWER". With that there is a whoosh of cold are as the doors swing open and the lights from the lantern overhead dims, beckoning you to leave the tower.
Myra, turns and leaves the tower, the doors close behind her.
On the early eve of the next day, Myra returns. As she approaches the front doors, they open by themselves, and a low voice booms out "ENTER!!!"
Inside once again, Myra notices there are two objects on the table that were not there before. Two scrolls
"THE SCROLL ON THE LEFT IS A MAP THAT SHOWS THE LOCATION OF QUASQUETON, THE FORMER ABODE OF THE WIZARD ZELLIGAR AND HIS WARRIOR COMPANION ROGAHN. WITHIN THEIR LAIR IS RUMORED TO BE A ROOM OF POOLS. TRAVEL TO QUASQUETON AND SEEK OUT THE ROOM OF POOLS, AND BRING ME BACK 3 DRAUGHTS OF THE MAGICAL SHIMMERING WATER FROM ONE OF THE POOLS."
"THE OTHER SCROLL CONTAINS THE LOCATION OF THE BARROWMAZE, HIDDEN DEEP WITHIN THE BARROWMOOR. SEEK THIS PLACE OUT AND BRING ME BACK THREE SAPPHIRE GEMSTONES FROM THREE SAPPHIRE SKELLETONS. "
"IF YOU RETURN ONE OF THESE SETS OF ITEMS I WILL REWARD YOU WITH ONE SPELL, IF YOU RETURN WITH BOTH, I WILL REWARD YOU WITH BOTH SPELLS" .
"YOU MAY LEAVE NOW" the wizard finishes. And with that the doors open once again, and the lights begin to dim.
"Wait", Myra shouts out to ask a question.
"GO!!!! AND BOTHER OF ME WITH THIS NO LONGER" booms the voice of the Wizard.
With that Myra takes the scrolls off the table and leaves the tower. The doors shut behind her, the eyes of the gargoyles glowing with green light. As she makes her way across the bridge, Myra looks back at the tower once more and for a moment she thinks she sees a dark shape outlined in the faint light of the heavy glazed window high above....
Thursday, April 19, 2012
The Three Deities of D&D
I was giving some thought to real factors that control the players and the D&D game and how those factors are so powerful they are basically deistic in nature. The first is the Dungeon Master ( aka. GOD), who is the creator, narrator, judge, jury and all out big big cheese of gaming. There are good DMs, bad DMs, very giving DMs, stingy DMs, fair DMs, unfair DMs, etc, but no matter what kind of DM you game with, they really are the true GOD of the game.
The second most powerful deity of the game are the dice ( aka . CHANCE). The roll of the die dictate probability of most every event in the game that is not a direct call by the big chief himself, the DM. The dice can be fickle for sure. Some times their on a roll other times they just suck ass and this goes for DM and players both. While, the dice also have the capability of affecting the DMs decisions, actions, etc, a DM also can override the rolls of the dice if he sees fit, or wants a certain outcome ( cheat the dice). But if a DM is the kind of God that dictates that the results of the die are the word of law and accepts the rolls from himself and his players no matter what, then it seems CHANCE may be the real Head Honcho...
The third most powerful deity in the game is the end (aka. DEATH). Now this can be death of a party member, a total party kill, or end of a setting/campaign due to many factors ( player participation, DM lack of interest, lack of player interest, campaign/setting goals reached, etc). From the players perspective, I think Death is the most powerful Deity in the game. I mean, Raise Dead and Resurrections aside, the end of a character sucks, especially if you have played that character a while and have invested "soul" into him. I mean the DM can sometimes be reasoned with or swayed, the dice can be altered or cheated, but the death of a character is the end of the game for that players invested identity.
Death of a campaign/setting can be both a positive event or negative. The ending of a game due to total party annihilation means the players and the DM have to start over. A campaign/setting ending because the party reached its goal ( saved the world, killed the big bad dragon, defeated the evil wizard, etc) can be rewarding and welcome ending, even if players die in the ultimate battle for that ending. A campaign/setting dying due to lack of player participation or interest sucks for any DM, I can attest to that.
Maybe there are more factors here that I am missing ( and if anyone has any please pipe up), but I just thought it an interesting concept to address the Three Deities of the Dungeons and Dragons Game as I see it.
So for now on when someone asks what deity can they worship Ill tell them " well you can worship ME, the DICE or your impending and eventual DEATH-MUAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!)"
It should be noted I left out "RULES" specifically as I see them as more a subset of the DMs purview but Im sure one could make a justification for the rules ( aka LAW) being another Deity....
Sunday, April 15, 2012
ADVENTURES IN THE NORTHERN REACHES #4
Session #4:(4-15-2012): Oh Crap!!! Hobgoblins
The group spent a week in Threshold resting up and enjoying the fine brandy they found in the Ogre's lair and purchased new supplies. They re connect with the dwarf Golar once again and made preparations to go back to the Caves of Chaos.
On their second day of travel back to the caves they were set upon by a band of brigands hiding in the bushes and trees. A very buxom dark haired lady stepped out in front of them accompanied by a rather mean looking fighter. " Hello my lovelies, I'm Reva the Robber. Lay down your weapons and gold and I'll let you go with your lives". To which Brother Cadfael stepped forward and said " Why yes, we have a message here we are to deliver to you from Threshold". And with that, Cadfael pulled out the scroll of Hold Person he had readied at his belt and read it ( they found it in the Ogre's lair) and Reva and her lieutenant and both of the bowmen in the trees were held fast before they could get a shot in. Myra quick with her sleep spell took out the remaining brigands.
The group then set to squabbling about weather to return her for her ransom or kill her or find their camp/lair and if they should kill the remaining bandits or not. Cadfael was all for killing the "evil men", but Golar the lawful dwarf was against killing them. In the end it was decided to tie the bandits up, then made one of them lead the group to the bandits camp site with Riva and her lieutenant bound, gagged and blindfolded.
They found the camp but didn't find much there. The group interrogated their prisoners, but only the one who led them in was willing to talk. He informed them that Riva had hidden the treasure in the bole of a tree somewhere but no one knew where. Frustrated with their search efforts, the group decided to head back to Threshold and collect their reward.
They decided to let the one bandit guide go into the wilderness with only a dagger to protect himself, and left the other bandits tied to a tree to fend for themselves.
Once back in Threshold, they presented Rita to Captain Borath, head of the watch and he took the group to see Castellan Velarys. He was very pleased that they had apprehended the menacing bandit leader, and took her into custody and gave the group a handsome 1500 gp reward. Wo Hooo- now some real gold to buy real stuff. So, the next morning they went off shopping.
On a visit to see Mikko at The Broken Buckler, Myra and Golar were met with unpleasant stares. Golar overheard one of the dwarves hanging out there speaking to Mikko in Dwarven. Something about the group being responsible for the death of their friend Malg ( a dwarven hireling the party took on their first time into the caves weeks ago) and some business about how the group not only did not return the dwarf's body for a proper burial and left it to rot in those goblin infested caves, but they had also stolen his chain mail and sold it. Myra's request for a cross bow was met with an unreasonably high cost of $300 gold.
Once Golar explained what just transpired, Myra agreed that they had not returned Malg's body and had sold his property and took the money they got to fund their next adventure. Myra assumed like the rest of the party, that they had full claim to their hirelings possessions upon death and had no duty to return their bodies either. Golar made profuse apologies on the behalf of the group for not understanding or respecting proper dwarven custom and said he would make things right.
Golar didn't think it fair that Guild master Olsen did not make any such agreements with the group regarding their hirelings and their possessions and was very upset ( in truth Olsen had inquired as to the fate of the hirelings, but all he was told is that they fell in battle at the caves and were left there while the party fled).
Golar didn't think it fair that Guild master Olsen did not make any such agreements with the group regarding their hirelings and their possessions and was very upset ( in truth Olsen had inquired as to the fate of the hirelings, but all he was told is that they fell in battle at the caves and were left there while the party fled).
The group made its way to the market area in Downtown in the hopes of repurchasing the dwarven chain from Turgen's Trade Goods. It just so happened that the armor was yet to be sold, but Turgen wanted a nice sum of 100gp for it. The party made agreements to purchase back the armor at standard rate but also offered a bunch of other weapons they had on hand as well. Once Malg's chain mail was returned to the Broken Buckler, the group also paid a handsome sum of gold to fund a memorial service for the Malg ( since they could not recover the body for decent burial/cremation). This pleased the Dwarves enough that they were willing to once again do proper business with the group so they could get Brother Cadfael into some plate mail (the group also made sure from now on to see that their hirelings had no existing wills and testament or next of kin for their possessions before hocking them for their own).
Once again properly equipped, the party set off for the Caves of Chaos. Cadfael came up with the idea to go back to the bandits camp and use Detect Magic as a possible means to locate Riva's treasure. So the group made their way back to the bandits camp (which they found now empty) and Myra used her Detect Magic spell and circled about the camp until she detected a faint glow from a tree. When they searched they found some potions, some coins and a gold ingot. Nice haul. Cadfael tested the potions and discovered one of them was poison- luckily he made his save. He discovered the second was a healing potion. Once finished at the camp, the group continued on to the Caves. The journey went by uneventfully and they were able to reach the caves in three days ( slowed down now not only by Golar the dwarf but Cadfael's plate mail).
They decided to try and re enter the goblin caves via the secret passage in the ogre cave from last visit. They spent some time exploring the ogre cave but couldn't figure out how to open the secret door. It was either locked in some way or blocked or perhaps only worked in one direction. So the group moved on back over to the main entrance to the goblin caves.
As on previous visits, the group readied weapons, torches and set in with Golar and the elven hireling Galdreel in the lead. Once in, they took the right passage once again in the hopes of continuing to clear out the rest of the goblin lair left from their last visit. As they rounded the corner, at the end of the passage was a barricade made up of crates and barrels. Behind them were standing a group of large nasty reddish goblin like creatures "HOBGOBLINS" yelled Galdreel. One of the creatures stood up on a crate and growled back " Goblin home under new management....ATAAAAACK!!!!!!....." and blew a horn.
The hobgoblins lobbed spears from behind the barricade and from behind the party a group of more hobgoblins came charging upon the group followed by a bunch of goblins. The party was surrounded. Myra was able to get a sleep spell off, but not before the hobgoblins slew Yar (poor Yar never saw his dreams of becoming a true adventurer and joined his friend Guy in the afterlife). The sleep spell took out many of the monsters, but no sooner had they fallen when a new group of the creatures moved into the corridor and took up their place. Brother Cadfael tried to lob a burning flask of oil at one of the hobgoblins on the crate but didn't do enough to take it out. He took a few solid hits on his new plate mail and went down and Myra was knocked unconscious by a goblin as well. Wargrim moved in to defend her fallen body and smacked his flaming torch on a goblin head and killed it.
Orien laid into the hobgoblins with arrows and Galdreel charged into the barricade ( with 1 hit point) intent on taking out as many hobgoblins and he could before he died, while Golar cleaved with his battle axe right through the head of another hobgoblin. Orien downed the potion of invisibility ( which he got in the Ogre's cave) and worked on moving Brother Cadfael out of the cave with Bryrig's help. Wargrim defended Myra's fallen body. The remaining hobgoblins and goblins fled, but there was fear that more would return. The rest of the group withdrew from the lair as they heard the sound of more of the creatures returning further down the passage.
The group fled the tree line at the entrance to the canyon and did their best to bandage up. Brother Cadfael miraculously survived (having made two of his save or die rolls) and Myra was soon up and and on her feet as well so the group could flee into the night and find a good safe place to rest. Taking their time to scout ahead and avoid any further confrontation with the bandits, they made it back to Threshold safely.
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